Nth LA for 02 TJ with Rubi driveline - will this work?

[YDJ]

Here is what I am considering and I want to know if it will work before buying the Nth 4.5" LA.

I have an '02 TJ Sport with NV3550,an NV231, stock suspension, and 31" tires.

I want to install the following:

- '05 TJ Rubicon front & rear differential assemblies
- '05 TJ Rubicon NV241OR transfer case
- 33" Tires on stock Rubicon rims
- 3.5" or 4.5" Nth LA?
- And possibly an NSG370 (6 spd) in the far future

Will this work?
And if so what Nth LA kit do i buy that will enable me to do the above?

:cool:

[JeepinJon]

If you were planning on making all of these modifications you would want to go with the nth suspension that is set up for the 03-06 TJ with a manual transmission. You may need to do some modifications to make this work, but if I recall correctly the only change between the years was the transmission used, and so the long arm is only going to be able to boly on if you have the correct transmission, so you may need to do your transmission change at the same time.

If you choose not to do the transmission at the same time you would probably want to go with the versions designed for an earlier TJ, and see if you can just purchase a new center section / slider where it all bolts together in the future.

[YDJ]

I think, but not sure, that the frame rails are different between an '02- and say '03+.
Regarding the TT, based on the instructions I found in the forum I need either TT14021, TT14020, or TT14012. So, TT14021 says is for 03 Rubi with manual (frame issue?). The TT14020 says is for either 03 Non-Rubi manual (frame & TC issue?). The TT14012 is for an 02 Non-Rubi manual (TC issue?). I guess with the TT14012 it will bolt to my frame but would have to dimple the body (preferred) or use a BL (not preferred)?

I am assuming that the rest of the Nth LA suspension bolts to the TT and the frame. Actually, looking for instructions on the Nth LA lift.

[rubclt]

It would be cheaper to sell your jeep and buy an 03 Rubicon...

[YDJ]

I hear you on the selling and buying, but where is the fun and challenge on that! :)

I went down that route I don't find a happy compromise. I like my '02, owned it since new, have done fun things with it and its paid off. Besides, the sell and buy is not cheaper on an '03 when I factor in the paint job for the Solar Yellow they did not make on that year. After that year it starts becoming a break even in cost once you factor in purchase price, taxes, transportation.... Another strange thing is that I like the interior on the '02 better than the '03 and beyond (personal preferrence).

I am committed to this fun crazy modification! :)

Did I say committed!?!?

[jsongy]

I have a 6in Nth longarm, 35in TRXUS, NO wheelspacers, on a SWB Rubi. It netted 5in over stock in my 05 Rubi. Make sure you know how much your gonna grow, and tire size you want to run.

Yes, I am very happy I chose Nth Degree.

Good luck

[rubclt]

You are on right track then, nth LA is great, enjoy...

[YDJ]

Jsongy, you netted 5in over stock? 6in of lift + 2in of tires should have given you about 8in. Even with heavy equipment that's a 3in difference!!! I guess I should ask where is this 5in at?

[jsongy]

Jsongy, you netted 5in over stock? 6in of lift + 2in of tires should have given you about 8in. Even with heavy equipment that's a 3in difference!!! I guess I should ask where is this 5in at?


I should have made it clearer,mybad. Lift height measured after lift install ONLY. same tires were used to measure before/after.

[YDJ]

I got the Rubicon axles, transfer case, and driveshafts delivered today! Now, I am ready to order the lift kit, hopefully the 4.5" Nth LA if it will work as described at the beginning of the thread. Modifications are acceptable.

AEV, what do you say? What part numbers do I have to order?

[AEV Jim]

Sorry to be tardy on monitoring/responding to this thread. YDJ (Irving) has been e-mailing with me directly...so I'm reposting those e-mails here so that others can see my responses to his desired build-up plans...start at the bottom of this post and read backwards up to here...
-Jim



Hi again Irving, and your welcome for the response...that's what we're here for! :)

You're reading and theorizing is commendable, but unfortunately it doesn't solve the issue because there is a physical difference in the TT itself in addition to the 'dimple step' (if that were all that was needed, they'd be common kit p/n's already). The TT's made for use with Rubicon t-cases have an extra 'sump' (i.e. low area formed into the contour of the TT) to clear the bottom of the front-output area of the t-case...directly below where the dimple is required on top. Basically the Rubicon t-case is 'fatter' both upward (dimple) and downward (sump), so the problem is that you need a TT skid that has the sump meant for a Rubicon with the frame-hole pattern required for your '02 (frame holes moved for '03-06 years). Hope that clears things up...

-Jim
AEV Engineering

I Caballero wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks for your prompt answer and advice.
>
> I would like to understand one more thing regarding
> the TT. I had found instructions Nth30115 and
> Nth30116 on AEV's forums and understand they are not
> complete.
>
> However, it seem as if the following could be done in
> my setup. It seemed as if I could use TT14012 or
> TT14015 (TT for '02 w/NV3550) in Nth30115 but
> following Nth30116's step 4. This meant I would have
> to dimple the bottom of the Jeep tub right over the
> NV241OR. OR simple use a BL of 1" (which I am not
> sure I want to do as that might be to much for just
> 33" tires.)
>
> So is this a possibility or is that a special TT
> that's not available?
>
> Look forward to hear from you.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Irving
>
>
>
>
> --- Jim Frens <jfrens@aev-conversions.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Irving,
>> The trip was very productive, thanks.
>>
>> Your plans sound fine and in general will work
>> seamlessly, but there are
>> a few issues to address:
>>
>> - With the present range of Tummy Tuckers we have in
>> stock (old Nth
>> production parts), the skid you'd need to fit a
>> Rubicon t-case in a
>> pre-'03 frame does not exist (Nth used to build
>> these on special order
>> but AEV is not set up do this). However, as soon as
>> the new-old-stock
>> parts run out, we will go into production on a new
>> version of the Tummy
>> Tucker that will have the needed combination of
>> features to make the
>> t-case swap you plan a non-issue...problem is I
>> don't know when the
>> switch to the new design will happen but it has not
>> happened yet (should
>> be in a month or two).
>> - The difference between your current NV3550 5-speed
>> manual and the
>> NSG-370 6-speed is transparent to the TT install
>> (only difference is
>> metric bolts but both are included with the TT kit
>> anyway).
>> - The Rubicon axles are no problem and don't require
>> any special
>> consideration with respect to the longarm suspension
>> components.
>> - You will not be able to use the Rubicon TJ rear
>> driveshaft since it's
>> not a double-Cardan (aka 'CV' as some call it). You
>> will need to
>> purchase an aftermarket driveshaft and output yoke
>> conversion in order
>> to solve vibrations that would occur with the
>> standard Rubicon
>> driveshaft - this is normal for any lift kit of this
>> height on a TJ.
>> - The 4.5" version will be tall enough for 33" tires
>> without the need
>> for a body lift nor our Highline fender kit to
>> achieve adequate
>> tire-to-fender clearances, however the factory
>> Rubicon TJ wheels will
>> tuck the tires too close in to the vehicle for best
>> performance. If
>> you're talking about an LT285/75R16 tire, it will be
>> barely narrow
>> enough to not hit the frame rails, but the overall
>> stability will be
>> marginal with such a narrow track width. If you're
>> planning on a
>> LT307/70R16 (a true 33x12.50 equivalent size for 16"
>> rims), then they
>> won't even fit without rubbing the frame (front
>> during turns, rear all
>> the time!). To solve both clearances and stability,
>> plus give the full
>> flex potential of the suspension, I would recommend
>> you add 1.25" thick
>> wheel spacers to move the tires out to a 'normal'
>> track width of about
>> 62"...or you could opt for our AEV 17" wheels which
>> come with the
>> correct backspacing to achieve this width without
>> the need for spacers.
>>
>> Since we are just getting 'up to speed' selling the
>> Nth suspension
>> product line, I'm not sure if we can sell you the
>> needed
>> driveshaft/yoke-conversion and wheelspacers (if you
>> choose that route),
>> but Rocco can work with you to clarify what we can
>> and can't handle at
>> this early date. As for the TT issue, that may be
>> dependent
>> availability of the new design since we're not set
>> up to do the
>> modification to the existing TT parts...
>>
>> As for parts list and instructions, I confess that
>> we are still
>> preparing our website with this information right
>> now. Gathering the
>> information separately would take a decent amount of
>> time, but in just a
>> few days or a week or so, it should be up and
>> available on the website.
>> The short written answer is that the system has the
>> same content as it
>> came from Nth previously and it totally complete
>> except for shocks (we
>> also carry the recommended ones) and the
>> aforementioned rear driveshaft
>> conversion. Depending on how hard you plan to use
>> the Jeep I would also
>> recommend the Currie TJ heavy duty steering linkage
>> (we can sell this)
>> and some additional/optional skid plates including
>> our 4.0L Oil Pan
>> Skid, Front axle Slider, and some HD differential
>> skids or replacement
>> covers (Not Nth parts but also available from us).
>>
>> Thanks for your interest in our products and I hope
>> this helps with your
>> planned purchase...
>>
>> -Jim
>> AEV Engineering

[AEV Jim]

More from YDJ...

Hi Jim,

One thing I forgot to ask you about. Will there be
any issues with the transfer case shifter linkage when
going to the NV241OR and the new TT?

Thanks again!

Irving

____________
My reply:

Yes there are differences between the shift linkage for a TJ NV231 vs. the NV241OR, but they are solveable in more than one way. One obvious way is to buy the Rubicon TJ linkage (just need the bellcrank and lower link rod if I recall)....but I've done many Rock-Trac swaps into older TJ's myself and I've been successful with simply modifying the stock/original NV231 linkage. Even though the bellcranks are different, all I've found that I needed to do was shorten the lower link (from bellcrank to t-case lever). Sorry but I haven't documented this mod for what amount to shorten (and it may not be exactly the same for all years, though I'd think it is the same)...I've just always done the mod "on-car" so that it works...and it does very well as all of the swaps I've done are in regular hard-wheeling service with no issues. Hope that helps...
-Jim

[AEV Jim]

...and another question from YDJ...

Good morning Jim,

You left me thinking on this comment you made, "...so the problem is that you need a TT skid that has the sump meant for a Rubicon with the frame-hole pattern required for your '02 (frame holes moved for '03-06 years)."

Is this really that simple? Could I get the '03-06 TT and just drill the '02 holes on TT with your drawing? OR, Are there other issues such as frame rail angles and other things I might not be aware of?

If I have to wait, I will, but I rather not as it kills all the fun! :)

Tell Dave to hurry up and start the presses!!!

Thanks one more time,

Irving


______
My reply:

Yes in this case is is as simple as drilling new holes...mostly. The problem is drilling those holes *accurately* so that the countersunk bolts will all line up well enough to fully seat in their respective holes...if they don't, some won't stay tight now matter what you try...trust me I've tried it! Plus I don't have a ready-made print that details the hole locations for you to locate/drill them (we don't need that kind of documentation for production) so it would require some special time to generate that information even if you could drill all six holes perfectly...

There's only a handful of pre-03 NOS skids left, but the new production is still a ways off...there's a chance that for a short time of a few weeks we will be unable to fill orders for pre-02 TT's (and associated longarm applications). We're working hard to close/eliminate that availability gap, but like supertankers, these things are hard to turn on a dime....

-Jim