Lowering Nth 4.5" LA

[snowtoy]

Jim,

Im toying with the idea of removing the front coil spring spacer and the rear spring relocators on my Nth 4.5" long arm, to turn it into a 3" Nth LA lift. I have no Body lift or any other lift, and a standard TT on my Rubicon TJ. I have read via the internet that 3" is as low as one can go with the Nth long arms, can you elaborate? What issues will doing this cause? Do the cups that the gyro joints sit in need clearancing for compression? How will this effect the stinger operation? How far will this make the front axle sit to the side? I would plan on building my own rear spring relocator to to account for the arch the rear coils sit at. I would also be modifying what is needed to regain some of the lost compression. Im really curious what removing the front coil spacers and rear spring relocator will do to the ride quality and handling.

Thank you in advance for any guidence you can provide.

Marc

[rubclt]

I hae the three inch springs with SA and the rear stinger and it works fine. I have the long arms in a box and have been debating wheter to put them on with 3" springs. I think the issue is a clearance concern for the long arms with low lift becuase they run flat. I hope Jim jumps in to make things more clear...

[Igmar]

Yeah, this has been a much talked about topic in some other threads, I think what Jim's final response was that he knows of some people who have accomplished this, but he has never seen it in person, so can't say what the problems are and what needs to be done, as he hasn't tried it himself either.

I too am very curious about this setup, but seems like it would be too much of a hastle and too much work to loose that 1.5". Why not just accept the 4.5" and have that little more clearance or that 1" bigger tire?

[AEV Jim]

Yes we need to put this topic to bed! Actually I HAVE done a 3" TJLA now that we've built the red Brute on Portal-Tek portal axles that was on display in the Warn booth at SEMA (see Brute section for pix). Though there were many 'anomalies' due to the mods required by the portals, I now have some idea what it takes to do this setup, but I have not exercised it or "lived with it"...only built it. Here's the summary:

- GJ boxes don't need clearancing to run at 3" if the bumpstops are set up correctly (i.e. subtract only 1" per corner vs. the amount that comes in the 4.5" systems)
- Clearance between arms and top-cover bolts above the GJ jam nuts is tight, so switching them to button-head bolts is a good idea.
- Front UCA brackets will need to be removed to assure clearance (not normally required for normal 4.5"+ systems)
- Front arms will still clear the frame at full stuff, but it'll be tight, so if using non-stock front axle brackets, make sure they don't move the arms around from normal locations (most do this and some by a LOT). They can be up some from normal bracket locations, but definitely not outboard.
- Rear arms will crash into the frame where they cross under it when at full flex. The only practical solution is to simply not do the redrilling on the rear axle LCA brackets (this'll be a problem if you've already installed the system and lopped the LCA brackets off). Not redrilling will keep the axle-end of the arms down where they would be as if it was still a 4.5" lift with normal redrilling. This won't hurt handling or other things much, but will obviously mean you give up some of the under-axle ground clearance you'd normally have. Notching the frame might work, but I wouldn't recommend it; so would custom arms with a different shape, but don't even PM me to ask about that...it's not available at any price.
- subtracting front spacers and rear relocators will work fine, you just give up the avoidance of frame contact in the front during flex (minor issue), and the rear will have obvious misalignment between frame/axle seats and poor bumpstop performance - but as other lifts prove, it will go down the road. Surgically removing and 'rolling' the stock rear seats is a viable solution that I've done many times in the past (before I designed the relocators) and we also did on the portal Brute.
- Front axle doesn't have to sit offset too far because the front track bar bracket is designed to allow shim adjustment "down to" 3 inches of lift. HOWEVER, this bracket is already tight to front diffs, so if you're running more than a Dana 30, you'll need to be very careful to test and confirm that your stuff clears at full-up. Dana 60's will likely not clear the brace, but 44's should, but probably not with overly ribbed cast covers...you must dry-cycle the suspension and check or you'll be sorry to find out the hard way!
- Rear trackbar tower has provisions for lift heights down to 3" also, so no problems there.
- Stingers work fine down to 2" of lift, and the only issue below that is floor clearance, so it's a non-issue for 3"TJSA.

There. that's that. You can do it, and it should work if done correctly, but we're not selling it that way and don't have plans at this time,...so for now this is considered a non-warranteed modification of the system. Hope this helps and please direct people here if they start new threads about 3" TJLA.

Jim

[snowtoy]

Jim,

Thank you very much for all the info. This was exactly what I was looking for.

Marc

[AEV Jim]

Jim,

Thank you very much for all the info. This was exactly what I was looking for.

Marc

UR Welcome Marc. Good luck and let us know how it turns out if you do it. Since you mention no other BL, etc., either you're only planning on running 32" tires or you have Highline?

Jim

[snowtoy]

Jim,

Currently running 35" krawlers, plan is to lower to 3" and run the highline, but then larger tires might sneak into the picture.

Marc

[rubclt]

Thanks Jim, I am running 37" with 3"nth lift and a HL. I run a warn powerplant that pulls front down and the 4.5" might be the ticket... As for LA vs SA, I have been debating this for months... I have the parts and have been driving botha SA and LA nth lift LJ's... The LA rides better...

[AEV Jim]

Thanks Jim, I am running 37" with 3"nth lift and a HL. I run a warn powerplant that pulls front down and the 4.5" might be the ticket... As for LA vs SA, I have been debating this for months... I have the parts and have been driving botha SA and LA nth lift LJ's... The LA rides better...

Yep, the GJ's really help plus the longer/lower angle of the arms when comparing same-height lifts.

Jim

[rubclt]

I dry cycled the nth LA with track bar brace and an aftermarket diff cover and all of it fits at full stuff using OME Long Travel shocks the bump stops could be out and it all fits, slight rub (powder coat remove) on front LA at the TT bracket that is near frame. So I know on my Jeep I could run 3" springs with LA....

Now, I am running the 4.5 spring with no spacers. With 37" tires and the back spacing of the AEV bead locks and a Warn Power plant on the front I needed 4.5 springs to keep the tires from rubbing steering box bolts... I removed the bump stop lip so spring can ride down 1.5 inches because of the OME long travel shocks...

So, I hope this helps others... I would say with highline run stock suspension with 33” tires, run 3" with 35" tires and 4.5" with 37"'s... I have done all three and base this on my personal experience.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/rubclt/DSCN1703.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/rubclt/DSCN1702.jpg

[AEV Jim]

Good info and pix rubclt! I'm sure the others will appreciate...as do I.

Jim

[06 scrambler]

seeing if anyone has finished 3" LA lift on their Jeep yet?

[rubclt]

I had 3" nth springs with nth LA, it worked for me with 35"... With 37" the 4" is needed to help clear the front steering box bolts. So, IMO you 3" LA need 35" tires, even with a Highline, 37" need 4"...

[06 scrambler]

Cool. Thanks for the info. That is exactly what i want to run, highline, 3" LA, with 35" on the 17" AEV bead locks. I have the same year and color Rubicon as you.